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 LotF - Revelation [spoilers] 
bkbva


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
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Because I guess someone had to start the topic. Laughing

Today is Saturday, the book came out Tuesday. I've read about 50 pages so far. Normally, I'd have finished it already, or at least be within finishing by tonight. My heart just isn't in it anymore, I guess. Sad I got stuck at the very first Mando section. I don't want to read about Mando this, Mando that. When Luke talks to Niathal and asks if she knows what a Sith is, don't you know it, even he had to reference a Mando word. Rolling Eyes

And you what really sucks? Karen Traviss is probably the best writer currently on the SW author rolls. Talent wise, that is. What a waste.
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MaraJade001


Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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Yeah, I gave up reading this series when I heard about Mara's death. I purchased Sacrifice, but never could bring myself to read it. (I bought it for the pretty cover.)

I've heard some spoilers about this book which now brings me to the opinion that Travis is just another KJA. She's more wrapped up in her own pet characters than she is about the previously established ones.

In a perfect world only ONE author would have been authorized to write the EU novels: Zahn. At least that would have been MY perfect world. Wink

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Rigil Kent


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
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MaraJade001 wrote:
Yeah, I gave up reading this series when I heard about Mara's death. I purchased Sacrifice, but never could bring myself to read it. (I bought it for the pretty cover.)

Heh. That's similar to me, although I was so far behind in my reading that I hadn't even started the series when Sacrifice came out so I simply decided against reading any of it because of what they did to Mara. But then, I've not read that Dark Nest thing either and don't really have any plans to do so.

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Trace
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Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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I've only made it through the prologue...which I'd already read in the back of whatever the last book was, LOL. There was a time when I would drop everything to read a SW book and now I'm more interested in my new Anita Blake Vampire Hunter novel. Laughing

I'll take Revelation to work with me this week and should be able to make a pretty good dent in it. I'm spoiled about a few things and I've already flipped to the back, but I generally enjoy Karen's books, so we'll see how long it takes.

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Jade's Fire


Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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MaraJade001 wrote:
In a perfect world only ONE author would have been authorized to write the EU novels: Zahn. At least that would have been MY perfect world. Wink


Amen!

I won't buy this book. KT is the author that killed my favorite EU character, so I'm not buying anymore of her books. Not to mention I have little interest in Fett, and none in the Mandos. I'm only buying Allston and Denning's to see how this train wreck ends. Then it's no more post-DN EU for me.

I've been missing SW though, so I finally starting reading my copy of X-Wing: Wraith Squadron. Good stuff.
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flyswatter


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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I like alot of readers have had a very hard time getting over the death of Mara. In fact I have even noticed a change in the fanfiction writing. It seems that everyone that loves L/M have lost part of thier own passion. That sounds silly especially for fiction characters , but they where so wonderful together. This novel is not bad. I too like many readers that I have chatted with skip over the Fett stuff. In fact I was glad to learn that I was not the only one who did not care about it. I will say that the growth of the relationship between Ben and his dad made the novel for me. I loved that part and I did enjoy reading it just for that. If you do read it skim the Fett stuff because It is going to play a part in the last book. However most of it is Fett-crap and not needed. Anakim Hearts

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bkbva


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
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flyswatter wrote:
I will say that the growth of the relationship between Ben and his dad made the novel for me. I loved that part and I did enjoy reading it just for that.


Truly, that's the only part of the book worth reading.

Two weeks ago, I said that I had managed to get through only 50 pages in several days. Well, I've finally managed to get halfway through. Now that I've decided to entirely skip the Fett parts, it actually moves along. Not that most of that is any better. Let's face it, I knew going in I wasn't going to like this book. At least the last two books were fast, action-filled reads, so I was willing to overlook the plot to get to the payoff. Not this one.

I don't even care what happens in Invincible now.
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Trace
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I finally finished Revelation and I enjoyed it quite a bit more than I expected to, considering how badly some people hated it. Not the best book in the series, but not the worst, either, IMHO. This won't be long or detailed and I'm at work so I don't have the book with me to check spellings and such, but here goes:



****SPOILERS*****





The Bad:

The whole first half of the book was sloooooooow. I'd read two pages and fall asleep. I really don't have much bad to say - the only part that cheesed me off was Jacen's realization that Mara had not been his sacrifice after all, that it was his loss of Allana. I know this is coming from the POV of a deranged person, but I really could have lived without that. Mara died so he could become a Sith, so I'm thinking he needs to be the biggest, baddest Sith there ever was. But if she wasn't his sacrifice or they do something stupid like cop-out and redeem his ass, Mara's death will have been truly, utterly, and completely meaningless. *shakes head*

Tahiri as a Sith. Seriously? She used to be a pretty cool character. I actually liked her in Dark Nest. Oh well. Maybe it'll be better than her wringing her hands and pining after Anakin.




The Meh:

Mandos, mandos, mandos everywhere. Blah, blah, skim, skim. I actually didn't mind that Jaina went to train with them and I was happy to see her doing something besides hanging out with her boy toys, LOL. Good to see the boy toys getting along - guess Zekk got over that brush with the Dark Side in the last book. And it looks like the Jaina/Jag fans have a little more solid shippy stuff to enjoy, so that's cool.

Sintas and philosophy and morality and ethics and rape and premeditated murder and OMGhowmanyoftheseissuescanbecrammedinonebook? I like that Karen Traviss touches on tough subjects and takes us places that are uncomfortable to think about, but it was spread pretty heavy in this book and felt a little preachy at times.

Mara's Force ghost. Nice thought, but it didn't affect me like I thought it would. More than her appearance or expressions of sentiment, I did like that she led Ben to find solid forensic evidence to help nail Jacen. She's a smart woman and she knew that simply showing up and telling him that 'Jacen killed me' wouldn't hold in a court of law. Ben's reaction of "You did it, Mom," was one of my favorite scenes.



The Good:

Four words: Ben, Niathal, Pellaeon, Daala. As far as I'm concerned, those four PWNED this book and I loved every minute of it.

Ben has come a looooong way since the beginning of this series. He's grown from a petulant pre-teen to a maturing young man and Luke and Mara have every right to be immeasurably proud of him. To quote Luke, he's so "decent," and that's hard to come by nowadays. Ben and Luke's growing/repairing relationship was portrayed beautifully. (Any of my Legacy fan friends catch his thought that he didn't want anyone to die for him again? Now we know who Cade is channeling. Wink )

Niathal was fantastic. Honestly, I hadn't paid much attention to her character so far, but I liked everything about her in this book. She tried to do the right thing and owned her actions, for better or worse. And she had me cracking up with comments like, "Not in MY navy!"

Pellaeon was Pellaeon in all his awesomeness - like was mentioned, the last of the true Imperial gentleman. It was sad, but I thought his death scene was wonderfully written and a very fitting tribute to his character. Rose And those final taps with the comlink...I got chills!

Which brings me to the surprise of the book for me - Daala. I don't know much about her character, so I have no idea if Karen's characterization fit prior portrayals, but I loved her! I geeked out - seriously GEEKED OUT - when Daala showed up with her fleet and aligned with the GA against Jacen. (Or, to quote one of the TFN Lit mods: "Defeated Jacen with the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Weapons." LOLOL!!) What was it she said? "Allow me to introduce myself" or something like that - i.e. this is how the big boys and girls play, kid. You gonna take on the Empire, you're gonna have to do more than wear a cape. ;P

Along those lines, I don't usually get into or even read fleet battles, but I was riveted to the battle of Fondor. My kudos to Karen for being one of the few authors who can hold my attention during a space battle.


I guess that's about it. Overall, I thought it was Great in a few places and a split between Good and Not So Good for the rest.





On a remotely related note, I know it wasn't on purpose, but the timing of this book being close to the release of the Legacy # 20 & 21 comics raised some interesting questions. In LotF, we have the GA aligned with the Sith as the established government, but 100 years later the GA is the Rebel Alliance again fighting the Sith and the Empire. Damn them, I'm going to want to keep reading to find out how that happens.

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Rigil Kent


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
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Trace wrote:
Mara's death will have been truly, utterly, and completely meaningless.

As far as I'm concerned (and this is coming from someone who hasn't read the books and doesn't really intend to for what they've done to my beloved Mara), it is truly, utterly and completely meaningless. Jacen killing her to become a Sith never made any sense to me because, from what I recall of the franchise, he really didn't interact with her all that much. If Anakin Solo had survived the NJO and was in Jacen's place, it might actually make more sense based on the friendship that seemed to develop between Anakin and Mara during the first part of the NJO (that stuff on Dantooine springs to mind.) The entire point of that death seemed to be the equivalent of a ratings grab, and from what I've seen about how it happened, it's the equivalent of James Kirk's ridiculous death in Generations or Trip Tucker's equally inane death in the final episode of Enterprise: a potentially decent idea that was horribly misdone.

Which brings me to the surprise of the book for me - Daala. I don't know much about her character, so I have no idea if Karen's characterization fit prior portrayals, but I loved her! I geeked out - seriously GEEKED OUT - when Daala showed up with her fleet and aligned with the GA against Jacen. (Or, to quote one of the TFN Lit mods: "Defeated Jacen with the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Weapons." LOLOL!!) What was it she said? "Allow me to introduce myself" or something like that - i.e. this is how the big boys and girls play, kid. You gonna take on the Empire, you're gonna have to do more than wear a cape. ;P

Okay, forgive me, but the very idea that Daala the Incompetent of KJA's lousy Jedi Academy series being the person who kicks around Jacen simply causes me to snicker uncontrollably. I'm sorry, but it's really hard for me to swallow that she inexplicably became capable after how utterly and completely incompetent she always was.

I swear, from what I've heard and read about this series, it seems more and more like they've jumped over the Mirror Universe (of Trek fame) for these books. Mandos as the Mary Sues/Gary Stus, Mara as a braindead moron, Daala as competent hero ... none of it makes any sense...

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Jade's Fire


Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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Rigil Kent wrote:
Trace wrote:
Mara's death will have been truly, utterly, and completely meaningless.

As far as I'm concerned (and this is coming from someone who hasn't read the books and doesn't really intend to for what they've done to my beloved Mara), it is truly, utterly and completely meaningless.


QFT.
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kataja


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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I finally came uptodate with LotF, and despite absolutely hating Mara' death, my opinion is that this series is something of the most solid that has been written in the EU (ok, I'm only familiar with the OT books).

Abput Revelation, I much agree with what Trace expressed earlier.

However I found myself alost enjoying the Mando-passages in this book, something I certainly didn't do in her previous two. Ihe Mando passages form an interesting comment to the crisis the Solo's and the Skywalkers are facing, and I wonder how much of the deeper subjects will actually be brought up again in Invincible...
I'm only annoyed that Jaina had to get all the way to the mando's to get some deep thoughts in her head. I mean, it's not like Luke or Leia should lack that perspective. Much of it should be basic stuff at the Jedi Acadamy IMO. And considering Jaina was Mara's appretice, it's straightout unlikely Mara shoulden't have thaught a lot more than "ordinary Jedi fighting".

Alos, I was compeltely moved to tears when Mara's ghost appeared. Especially second time. I cried like a child, LOL! I think Traviss managed to write that absolutely beautifully! It could have been so sappy, but she erally did a great job!

[/quote]the growth of the relationship between Ben and his dad made the novel for me.[quote]
I absolutely agree with flyswatter! That's whan makes me read the books, basicly.
It used to be Luke to make me read any SW novels at all. Then Mara came along and made a close number two. But Ben is absolutely wonderful too. They really have achieved something with his character! He's a wonderful blend of Luke and Mara, with a touch of Anakin Solo.

I see Rigil Kents point about Daala. She was absolutely hopeless in Andersons books, I agree. But then again. She was always said to be oohh so competent, so I clap my hands that she is finally [/i] shown to be that as well. Laughing

I also think that the trio; Allston, Traviss, and Denning have done an amazing handicraft in writing this series. They supply each other well, and leave increadiblt few large leaks in the story considering how large a mass they are handling.
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bkbva


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
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Well, I finally finished it. Sort of. I pretty much skimmed that last hundred pages, stopping to actually read when I cared about what was happening.

I've been to busy to do much of anything but work for the past month, but I can finally get time to breathe and catch up on reading and the rest of my life.

I still think the book was mostly boring. I still pretty much don't care what happens in Invincible.

Trace wrote:
But if she wasn't his sacrifice or they do something stupid like cop-out and redeem his ass, Mara's death will have been truly, utterly, and completely meaningless. *shakes head*


Which is my big worry. I want him dead, dead, dead, dead. In pieces. Slowly. Painfully. Actually, the Monty Python (Spamalot) method comes to mind ("I'm not dead yet").

Wow, I'm pretty good at this torture stuff, aren't I? Razz

Trace wrote:
Sintas and philosophy and morality and ethics and rape and premeditated murder and OMGhowmanyoftheseissuescanbecrammedinonebook? I like that Karen Traviss touches on tough subjects and takes us places that are uncomfortable to think about, but it was spread pretty heavy in this book and felt a little preachy at times


Oh, so that's what I skipped? Good.

I'm tired and worn out. Both in real life and in reading the SW EU. You can pretty much stick a fork in me because I'm pretty close to done. Good job authors and editors, aren't you proud?
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Rigil Kent


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
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bkbva wrote:
You can pretty much stick a fork in me because I'm pretty close to done. Good job authors and editors, aren't you proud?

That actually covers my thoughts quite well, which is really sad 'cause, back in the day, I was such a mondo SWars fan. I mean, I purchased the SWars trivial pursuit game and none of my friends would play it with me. Now ... now, I'm just really indifferent toward the franchise.

Sigh. 'Tis the passing of an era, I suppose. Was bound to happen one day... Tissue?

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Jade's Fire


Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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Rigil Kent wrote:
bkbva wrote:
You can pretty much stick a fork in me because I'm pretty close to done. Good job authors and editors, aren't you proud?

That actually covers my thoughts quite well, which is really sad 'cause, back in the day, I was such a mondo SWars fan. I mean, I purchased the SWars trivial pursuit game and none of my friends would play it with me. Now ... now, I'm just really indifferent toward the franchise.

Sigh. 'Tis the passing of an era, I suppose. Was bound to happen one day... Tissue?


Not to beat a dead horse, but that's how I feel as well. I've finally went back and completed my X-Wing series collection (the novels), but as for the new stuff... meh. I won't read Traviss' latest book, and I'm not actually looking forward to the last book of the series (Invincible?), but I suppose I will pick it up.
The current direction... it's just not something I want to read about. And the characters feel more like strangers than old friends.
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bkbva


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
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Not so much about Revelation, but it's not time to start another thread. Yet. I feel a little weird in that I suddenly decided to not read the spoilers for Invincible. For the past year, I've been telling myself that since I no longer cared what happened, I'd happily read the spoilers. Yet when someone posted in the discussion thread on tf.n that they had acquired the book (two full weeks early, sheesh!), I ran out of the thread like I had picked up a hot potato.

I know most folks here have stopped reading, but of those who are, are you reading the spoilers? I can't believe it's up to more than a hundred pages of discussion already. And now that it turns out that there's a post-LotF book coming out in December, I imagine that's what's generating a lot of the discussion. Until I actually read Invincible, I guess I won't know if I'm going to be pissed that there is effectively a book 10 in the series, which is the impression I got from some borderline spoiler statement (that's all I got from it, so I don't consider it to actually be spoilerific).

Does it make sense that I actually want to find out the ending for myself instead of having someone tell me, after all the crap that we've been through?
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